Interview With A Witness
Friederike Dussaud, my (Anouck Dussaud) mother, lived in Germany during the years of the Berlin Wall, and was there to watch it collapse. I asked her a few questions pertaining to the Berlin Wall, and how it changed and shaped her life, and the lives of others surrounding her at the time.
3/16/2013
Personal Interview with Friedrike Dussaud
1.) As a child growing up in Germany, how did the presence of the wall affect you?
"It did not affect me at all since I grew up far from the border. East Germany was just like a different country, but a different country that we could not visit. It also did not affect me since my family did not have any relatives or friends there that we were cut off from. I just remember my father telling me how scared he was when he realized that he could have ended up in East Germany as he was visiting Berlin the night the wall was built. I don't know how real that fear was.
I also remember befriending a new class mate when I was a teenager. He had fled East Germany in a dangerous night action with his father, mother and two brothers. The mother was caught and held back and I remember him telling me that she was screaming at them to keep going. She was put in prison and he did not see her for years. My friend and his brothers were first happy to have made it to their dream land West Germany (of course missing their mother) but they also soon shared with me not liking West Germany. They felt we were spoiled capitalist only looking out for our own good. They felt that in their socialist country was true friendship as people had to help each other, it was less individualistic. I think the oldest brother attempted to go back."
2.) What was the atmosphere in Berlin like when the wall still divided it?
"When I lived in Berlin it was just a fact and not much talked about. Driving from Hamburg to Berlin via the Autobahn to visit my boyfriend was uncomfortable, as I had to drive through East Germany. The border control was very unfriendly, and it felt like driving through a prison. I was always glad when I made it through to West Germany (either West-Berlin or Hamburg). I remember also taking the train, and again the east german police and border control made us "wessies" feel anxious. It was also strange to be stared at by east germans in their little plastic cars (truly little cars) since we shared the same autobahn. We were not allowed to stop. It was highly forbidden to communicate with east germans while driving through. I was always afraid my car could break down and wondered what would happen."
3.) Were there any warning signs in the days leading up to the end of the berlin wall, or did it come as a complete shock?
"I think we heard about some church initiated demonstrations on the street. I remember telling my boyfriend that I don't understand why the whole country does not rise up. It would be unimaginable in my mind that the government would shoot their own people. But my boyfriend who was born and raised in Berlin could not imagine there ever not being a wall. He told me that as a child he grew up in a neighborhood were the street was divided by the wall. His apartment was on the 3rd or 4th story. High enough to see above the wall and watch families across the street having breakfast in their apartments. For my boyfriend a united Berlin or Germany was not conceivable.
The evening the wall in Berlin (Check Point Charlie) opened I came home at around 9 PM from visiting a friend. My boyfriend sat in front of the television watching the news. He looked distraught, numb and pale as if he did not believe what he was seeing. I asked him what was happening and he just quietly and emotionless, sort of in a state of shock as you asked, said "They are opening the wall". I remember getting very excited and saying "We need to go to Check Point Charlie, this is historic! Let's go, let's go!" And so we went, parked near by and walked to Check Point Charlie."
4.) What was it like being part of the crowds that began to take down the Berlin Wall on November 9, 1989?
"I can describe what happened but it is difficult to put my feelings of exhilaration, happiness, excitement and fear into words. We did not know what would happen. There were hundreds of people on the western side pressing against the wall and border patrol people. The area of about 2 yards in front of the wall on the western side was still eastern territory. They had positioned young eastern soldiers along the wall on our side. These young men were holding on to each other by their belts, looking white as sheets and very scared of us or maybe their commanders. They were used as human shields. The border was still closed (this must have been around 10 PM, it was dark and cold). Suddenly we heard a large crowd (it must have been hundreds, hard to tell) from the eastern side of Germany scanting "WE WANT IN" (remember, West Berlin was surrounded by the wall and Eastern Germany like an island). So we all started screaming at the top of our lungs "WE WANT OUT". The commanders were getting visibly more nervous, talking, shouting, clutching their kalashnikovs (machine guns). I remember wondering if they would possibly open fire if we pressed too hard against them. But suddenly they opened up the gates and the first East Germans came through. It was unbelievable. They came through in their little trabants (name of the little, plastic cars they drove), those cars looked weird and ancient to us, sort of like out of the fifties. In it, families were cramped, sitting on top of each other, some had odd belongings sticking out of windows like lamps or bird cages. As if they last minute wanted to grab something of importance. The crowd went wild, we went wild. We pulled these people out of their cars hugging them. They cried and shouted and showed us their passports and the stamp they had gotten, promising them that they could go back home if they wanted to. But they did not know if that was true. Some broke down in tears because their grandma, mother or friend refused to go with them and they did not know if they would see them ever again. It was unclear at the time if the border would stay open…
Later we went to the Kurfuersten Damm, a famous shopping street in West Berlin and celebrated. There was music and champagne on the street, people singing and dancing."
5.) What was the atmosphere in Berlin like after the wall started to come down?
"The very next morning I went to class (I studied social work). My class started at 10 AM and I was a bit tired from staying up all night. I was shocked to find out that no one in my class (about 10 students) not even my (politically very active) teacher had listened to the news that prior evening or this morning. They did not know what had happened and listened to my account as if I was insane. I think a lot of people slept through the first hours of this amazing event!
I think that first day or the day after the west german government announced that they would give every east german 100 marks when they visited the west the first time. I don't know how much money that would be nowadays in $ equivalence, but probably 300-400$. Like you know West Berlin was surrounded by East Germany so we had an influx of thousands (hundred-thousands?) of east germans in Berlin the first days. The streets and subways were so crowded one couldn't go anywhere. One day I tried to go home from school but I could not even go down into the subway station. I was so frustrated I just opened up a car that was standing at a red light and sat down next to the astonished driver saying "Sorry, in these days we all need to help each other, please drive me home." And he did. I also could not go grocery shopping in my usually inexpensive grocery stores. I was a student and did not have much money but the cheaper grocery stores were run over by East Germans. If a store opened at 9 AM there were already waiting lines at 6 AM. Many East Germans spend their 100 marks on produce. There was lots of produce that we take for granted that they had never tasted, only heard of (oranges, bananas comes to mind, or sometimes they had it from Cuba, but already half rotten). So the first days were hectic and as much as I was happy I was also getting really annoyed. "
6.) How did Berlin change for you after the wall's destruction?
"Honestly, not much. After the crowds of the first days/weeks dissipated life for me got back to normal. I do remember East Germans coming into the photo shop I worked in asking me why I was so friendly to them. "The customer is king" was unknown to them. I told them I would loose my job if I wouldn't treat them well. You have to understand that East Germany had no unemployment, everything was regimented. You could not loose your job, so you did not have to be courteous to people. I know sounds weird. Soon we started hiring people from East Germany and a lot of them we had to let go. They would not work! They would just sit around and talk! Like I said, they were used to not loosing their jobs no matter what. Of course we also had some great new workers, wonderful people with high work ethic. And the other ones, I am sure learned quickly. They weren't bad people. I visited parts of East Berlin in the first weeks and was shocked at the stagnation. It was like little had developed in some neighborhoods, as if time had stood still in the 60's. Most houses still had the shrapnel from the second world war in the walls. That was erie. But shortly after I moved to the US."
7.) How was the fall of the Berlin Wall a turning point in your life, as well as the lives of your friends and family?
"It was not a turning point for me as I left the country. Again my parents lived far away from East Germany so there was not much impact for them. I know that a lot of people were upset at East Germans. East Germans felt they were very deprived. They felt like they deserved the big car, TV or whatever right away that West Germans had. West Germans opinion was that they worked hard for it. They did not just get things overnight. They were upset that they had to pay for the East Germans and the unification. This is all a generation away and by now waves have smoothed and I think culturally speaking there is not a big difference anymore between East and West Germans. I did here that East German women are more feministic and stronger than West German women as they worked in East Germany and so grew up with a different identity."
8.) What did the Berlin Wall symbolize for you?
"I am not sure how to answer that question. I can tell you that it surprised me how you can partition a country, a country of people with the same language, culture and values and that in a generation or two of living under different governments they truly become different people with different cultures, values and attitudes. That is pretty amazing, how little time it took I mean. Likewise, I think the two sides have blended together again and become one in pretty short time."
3/16/2013
Personal Interview with Friedrike Dussaud
1.) As a child growing up in Germany, how did the presence of the wall affect you?
"It did not affect me at all since I grew up far from the border. East Germany was just like a different country, but a different country that we could not visit. It also did not affect me since my family did not have any relatives or friends there that we were cut off from. I just remember my father telling me how scared he was when he realized that he could have ended up in East Germany as he was visiting Berlin the night the wall was built. I don't know how real that fear was.
I also remember befriending a new class mate when I was a teenager. He had fled East Germany in a dangerous night action with his father, mother and two brothers. The mother was caught and held back and I remember him telling me that she was screaming at them to keep going. She was put in prison and he did not see her for years. My friend and his brothers were first happy to have made it to their dream land West Germany (of course missing their mother) but they also soon shared with me not liking West Germany. They felt we were spoiled capitalist only looking out for our own good. They felt that in their socialist country was true friendship as people had to help each other, it was less individualistic. I think the oldest brother attempted to go back."
2.) What was the atmosphere in Berlin like when the wall still divided it?
"When I lived in Berlin it was just a fact and not much talked about. Driving from Hamburg to Berlin via the Autobahn to visit my boyfriend was uncomfortable, as I had to drive through East Germany. The border control was very unfriendly, and it felt like driving through a prison. I was always glad when I made it through to West Germany (either West-Berlin or Hamburg). I remember also taking the train, and again the east german police and border control made us "wessies" feel anxious. It was also strange to be stared at by east germans in their little plastic cars (truly little cars) since we shared the same autobahn. We were not allowed to stop. It was highly forbidden to communicate with east germans while driving through. I was always afraid my car could break down and wondered what would happen."
3.) Were there any warning signs in the days leading up to the end of the berlin wall, or did it come as a complete shock?
"I think we heard about some church initiated demonstrations on the street. I remember telling my boyfriend that I don't understand why the whole country does not rise up. It would be unimaginable in my mind that the government would shoot their own people. But my boyfriend who was born and raised in Berlin could not imagine there ever not being a wall. He told me that as a child he grew up in a neighborhood were the street was divided by the wall. His apartment was on the 3rd or 4th story. High enough to see above the wall and watch families across the street having breakfast in their apartments. For my boyfriend a united Berlin or Germany was not conceivable.
The evening the wall in Berlin (Check Point Charlie) opened I came home at around 9 PM from visiting a friend. My boyfriend sat in front of the television watching the news. He looked distraught, numb and pale as if he did not believe what he was seeing. I asked him what was happening and he just quietly and emotionless, sort of in a state of shock as you asked, said "They are opening the wall". I remember getting very excited and saying "We need to go to Check Point Charlie, this is historic! Let's go, let's go!" And so we went, parked near by and walked to Check Point Charlie."
4.) What was it like being part of the crowds that began to take down the Berlin Wall on November 9, 1989?
"I can describe what happened but it is difficult to put my feelings of exhilaration, happiness, excitement and fear into words. We did not know what would happen. There were hundreds of people on the western side pressing against the wall and border patrol people. The area of about 2 yards in front of the wall on the western side was still eastern territory. They had positioned young eastern soldiers along the wall on our side. These young men were holding on to each other by their belts, looking white as sheets and very scared of us or maybe their commanders. They were used as human shields. The border was still closed (this must have been around 10 PM, it was dark and cold). Suddenly we heard a large crowd (it must have been hundreds, hard to tell) from the eastern side of Germany scanting "WE WANT IN" (remember, West Berlin was surrounded by the wall and Eastern Germany like an island). So we all started screaming at the top of our lungs "WE WANT OUT". The commanders were getting visibly more nervous, talking, shouting, clutching their kalashnikovs (machine guns). I remember wondering if they would possibly open fire if we pressed too hard against them. But suddenly they opened up the gates and the first East Germans came through. It was unbelievable. They came through in their little trabants (name of the little, plastic cars they drove), those cars looked weird and ancient to us, sort of like out of the fifties. In it, families were cramped, sitting on top of each other, some had odd belongings sticking out of windows like lamps or bird cages. As if they last minute wanted to grab something of importance. The crowd went wild, we went wild. We pulled these people out of their cars hugging them. They cried and shouted and showed us their passports and the stamp they had gotten, promising them that they could go back home if they wanted to. But they did not know if that was true. Some broke down in tears because their grandma, mother or friend refused to go with them and they did not know if they would see them ever again. It was unclear at the time if the border would stay open…
Later we went to the Kurfuersten Damm, a famous shopping street in West Berlin and celebrated. There was music and champagne on the street, people singing and dancing."
5.) What was the atmosphere in Berlin like after the wall started to come down?
"The very next morning I went to class (I studied social work). My class started at 10 AM and I was a bit tired from staying up all night. I was shocked to find out that no one in my class (about 10 students) not even my (politically very active) teacher had listened to the news that prior evening or this morning. They did not know what had happened and listened to my account as if I was insane. I think a lot of people slept through the first hours of this amazing event!
I think that first day or the day after the west german government announced that they would give every east german 100 marks when they visited the west the first time. I don't know how much money that would be nowadays in $ equivalence, but probably 300-400$. Like you know West Berlin was surrounded by East Germany so we had an influx of thousands (hundred-thousands?) of east germans in Berlin the first days. The streets and subways were so crowded one couldn't go anywhere. One day I tried to go home from school but I could not even go down into the subway station. I was so frustrated I just opened up a car that was standing at a red light and sat down next to the astonished driver saying "Sorry, in these days we all need to help each other, please drive me home." And he did. I also could not go grocery shopping in my usually inexpensive grocery stores. I was a student and did not have much money but the cheaper grocery stores were run over by East Germans. If a store opened at 9 AM there were already waiting lines at 6 AM. Many East Germans spend their 100 marks on produce. There was lots of produce that we take for granted that they had never tasted, only heard of (oranges, bananas comes to mind, or sometimes they had it from Cuba, but already half rotten). So the first days were hectic and as much as I was happy I was also getting really annoyed. "
6.) How did Berlin change for you after the wall's destruction?
"Honestly, not much. After the crowds of the first days/weeks dissipated life for me got back to normal. I do remember East Germans coming into the photo shop I worked in asking me why I was so friendly to them. "The customer is king" was unknown to them. I told them I would loose my job if I wouldn't treat them well. You have to understand that East Germany had no unemployment, everything was regimented. You could not loose your job, so you did not have to be courteous to people. I know sounds weird. Soon we started hiring people from East Germany and a lot of them we had to let go. They would not work! They would just sit around and talk! Like I said, they were used to not loosing their jobs no matter what. Of course we also had some great new workers, wonderful people with high work ethic. And the other ones, I am sure learned quickly. They weren't bad people. I visited parts of East Berlin in the first weeks and was shocked at the stagnation. It was like little had developed in some neighborhoods, as if time had stood still in the 60's. Most houses still had the shrapnel from the second world war in the walls. That was erie. But shortly after I moved to the US."
7.) How was the fall of the Berlin Wall a turning point in your life, as well as the lives of your friends and family?
"It was not a turning point for me as I left the country. Again my parents lived far away from East Germany so there was not much impact for them. I know that a lot of people were upset at East Germans. East Germans felt they were very deprived. They felt like they deserved the big car, TV or whatever right away that West Germans had. West Germans opinion was that they worked hard for it. They did not just get things overnight. They were upset that they had to pay for the East Germans and the unification. This is all a generation away and by now waves have smoothed and I think culturally speaking there is not a big difference anymore between East and West Germans. I did here that East German women are more feministic and stronger than West German women as they worked in East Germany and so grew up with a different identity."
8.) What did the Berlin Wall symbolize for you?
"I am not sure how to answer that question. I can tell you that it surprised me how you can partition a country, a country of people with the same language, culture and values and that in a generation or two of living under different governments they truly become different people with different cultures, values and attitudes. That is pretty amazing, how little time it took I mean. Likewise, I think the two sides have blended together again and become one in pretty short time."